This is not a conversation that Kell is ready to have. He can agree to share his plan and his idea, but questioning his relationship with Rhy is never going to go well with him. Or at least not yet. It's not Rhy's fault, nor even his wish. It just is -- complicated. More complicated now that it has ever been before.
Kell won't argue he doesn't want to be independent. Quite the contrary. But also what happened to Rhy was at least partially his fault. While Kell did what he could, what no one else but him could have done, to fix it. He saved Rhy, but he also made their situation more complicated. They were already connected by more than just the bond Singularity replaced.
"But we do!" he protests. "I have my own thing, he has his. We're perfectly fine as is. And I'm not doing this for him. I just want to do it for right reasons."
The scariest part is that Kell truly believes what he says. But then there still is a barely healed scar on Rhy's forearm, and the fact that Kell would drop everything he does, all of his plans for Rhy at the slightest pretext. They're more intertwined that he's aware of.
"Kell I'm not just talking about recently. I've been watching you two for over a year now." Istredd may not have been close to them all that time ago, but he's a very observant person. He kept an eye on everyone from an outside perspective until he was drawn into a more personal perspective. If anything, his observation only seemed more true the closer he got.
It's a complicated situation because he doesn't want it to seem like a criticism of either of them, family will always be important. He doesn't have one of them, but he does understand, considering he now has one in Thorne. He would put his life on the line for any of them; he did almost die for them in the Pit, and he'll never regret that.
"I'm concerned the way you see the world and the way you value yourself is all about another person. You aren't the supporting player of your own life, you are the lead in your own story. And I'm saying that as someone who has been there." Istredd still struggles with his mindset of other people having more value than himself. He isn't saying this from a place of looking down at it, he's seeing himself in the situation and saying what he wishes he would have heard.
"Maybe you have your own things, but you don't value them more than what his things are, do you? I care about both of you, this is not an attack on your relationship, what I'm saying is you need to be able to live without him. You need your own life and to value that life for your own future. Because around here, everything can change in an instant."
Kell looks away, and Istredd can watch in real time how his muscles tense, his jaw sets, slowly, but surely clamming up in reaction to criticism. It is in the best intentions, and it is very true, but Kell doesn't see this. He doesn't want to see or hear any of it.
"I have my studies, the teashop and my writing. Neither of those thing have anything to do with Rhy. We live together, but we don't sit on each other's backs day in and day out. He's not even in my book."
But it doesn't matter, does it? Those are all things Kell would drop for Rhy at moment's notice. No matter how much he protests about it now.
"I have, and I do." He's just being contrarian now. "And I would really appreciate if everyone stop telling me what I should and shouldn't want. I think I can figure it out for myself well enough."
Telling him he can't have things he wants when he was home. Telling him he should want things now that he is here and he can. That what he wants is never right. It was not right then, it is not right now. Even if those are not the same things. Even if his clutching to Rhy is as much about Rhy himself, as it is about Kell being terrified by how little he knows who he even is without Rhy.
Istredd observes him quietly and lets him say his piece on the subject. "There are times when having an opinion from someone outside of a situation can be illuminating. I know it's helped me before." And it isn't like Istredd always enjoys it. There are times he's been very annoyed when someone points out something he doesn't want to acknowledge. Just ask Lucifer, often the source of him getting grumpy about apt observations. But they've always helped him see things more clearly.
Kell may not be able to do that presently though. He is still very young. He hasn't gone through decades of experience that makes someone more open to outside perspectives. Sometimes a person gets more defensive and incapable of change with time, but for the wise, it's the opposite.
"But if this is how you feel, I can't change that. I just want you to be happy, Kell." But Kell is not happy. Istredd can see that clearly. That could be for any number of reasons but it is not his place to try and control how that happens. "Never forget that I care for you."
It would have been so easy to protest. To say he knows what he's doing, to insist, resist and do it his way unless forced otherwise. Like he always did. With Istredd, there's nothing to resist. Istredd does not reprimand him, he does not order him to this way or the other. He's not visibly angry, or disappointed, or irritated. He's calm, and he listens to everything Kell has to say.
And that throws Kell off enough so he does not immediately follow his usually habit of stubbornly digging his heels. He swallows, blinks, bites his lower lip, eyes trailing away, suddenly pulled into the moment and the awareness of how much different Istredd is from all the figures of authority in his life. Aware enough that it gives him pause.
"I..." he starts, swallows, clears his throat. Still unable to look at Istredd, even when he finally continues. "I know... and I believe you. And I know you know how much Rhy means to me. But I am my own person. I really am. You don't have to worry I'll do something stupid. Really."
"It's not that I think you'll do something stupid, I think you don't value yourself as highly as you need to. And not value in terms of what you're capable of, like your magic, which I know you've been told is important in the service of others. But you're more than your magic and your use to others." It is so much easier to see this in someone else than in himself, but that's part of why he does understand. Istredd sighs and decides the better approach is personal.
"I was raised in a similar way." He knows he has discussed this with Kell but it's relevant. "With the Brotherhood, you were expected your entire life to be loyal, to only live for it. When they called, you came, no matter what. Even those who thought they were rebellious, they came when fingers were snapped at them. What we could do for them, it was the only thing that mattered." Istredd got away but did he? He got away to do his studies but it was for them, he got to avoid courts and active participation back home, but none of his money was his, everything he earned was branched from their influence.
"It's led me to struggle with finding value in myself separate from that. Someone else is always more important, some cause is always bigger than me." Istredd has created his own bigger causes, and identified the people he considers more important, and he still has an instinct to think about that first. "It's taken a lot of work on other people's part to try and change that mindset." It drives Lucifer insane.
"But I see that in you and it worries me, because you're so young, Kell. I don't want you to waste decades like I did thinking your only value is what other people can take from you. You're as important as Rhy is, Kell."
Despite Istredd's best efforts Kell just shrinks into himself. Thing is, he's not fully human. In Arnes, most people saw only the Antari. Here, most people see only the human. Alien, yes, a Summoned, but mostly human. Few people see both. Lucifer did, Sabine does, and Istredd should too. Nothing made it more painfully obvious how inhuman he can be than the weeks they spent in the pit. Deprived of his magic Kell was dying there. Istredd has seen him there, he should know. So how can he say that he has some other intrinsic value other than that?
"But I am my magic. It's as much me as ... well, whatever the rest is, or what it is ever for."
Herein lies the problem. He never paid attention to that rest. Not that he had freedom to. Most of what he did was in line or against the expectations others had for him. In reaction, no matter positive or negative, to other people thoughts and opinions. What he wanted was in opposition to limitations his adopted parents had put on him. It felt good to bend or even break the rules.
"I don't see how I can separate myself from it, and if it can be useful, if I can be useful, I'd rather it be for someone I really care about. It's not importance, I just can do things for Rhy that he cannot do himself so why wouldn't I?"
But did you ask him, Kell? Did you? Did you ask him if he wants your sacrifice? To share your life with him in a way that felt so unbreakable and final. At least until Singularity. He didn't. He just dropped his future into the fire like it meant nothing. Like he's always willing to drop things for Rhy. Whether Rhy asks him for it or not. Sometimes even when he doesn't want him to...
"I love my magic, my magic is me. I was born with it, for it. It is as much my identity as it is to you. It's not about magic." Istredd being a mage is his first sense of self. It came with the highest price though. The price of being taken away from what life he might have had, the price of being threatened and emotionally tortured and controlled by the head mages. It's still difficult thinking about the Brotherhood. Their destruction is so recent.
"Why can't he do things for himself?" Istredd tilts his head, eyes piercing. "He has access to magic now, like the rest of us. What rules applied in your sphere don't matter here. Rhy doesn't need you to sacrifice everything for him because he's capable of taking care of himself." Istredd's always thought of Rhy as a very competent person, perhaps with a healthier point of view about what is his responsibility and what is not.
"Have you spoken to him about all of this? Believe me when I say a lot of miscommunication in a relationship can be a death knell." Istredd and Yennefer were apart for decades because of their issues, and even when they met again they weren't good at talking to each other. All of the struggles Lucifer and him have gone through are because of miscommunication, they're not great at it, but they're learning.
"I'm not saying you're doing anything bad or wrong, it's more that you can find more happiness if you reach for it."
Always shielded him from harm, even from the slightest inconvenience. Always gave in to his wildest whims. Even the last one that turned out pretty disastrous on its own. He does not finish his sentence. It's enough that Istredd said it out loud.
What if Rhy really doesn't need him? He'd rather not know, not ask, than learn that's the case.
"Not really," he admits.
It's better now. At least Kell doesn't try to deliberately hide things and doesn't outright lie. It's progress, but they're still not that great in talking to each other about difficult things. What can be more difficult than that? With their history?
"But I am happy."
While true, it's not all that is. Kell just doesn't see it yet.
Istredd studies him quietly, extrapolating a few things that Kell's not saying out loud, and/or not even able to communicate to himself yet. "Well I recommend you do talk to him. And I'm glad you're happy." He suspects it'll take more than him pointing it out to get anywhere. That's something the two of them will have to ultimately figure out for themselves.
"Now let's talk about Nott's pier and what we can do to get it back to itself."
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
this is going to kick him soooo much down the road
Kell won't argue he doesn't want to be independent. Quite the contrary. But also what happened to Rhy was at least partially his fault. While Kell did what he could, what no one else but him could have done, to fix it. He saved Rhy, but he also made their situation more complicated. They were already connected by more than just the bond Singularity replaced.
"But we do!" he protests. "I have my own thing, he has his. We're perfectly fine as is. And I'm not doing this for him. I just want to do it for right reasons."
The scariest part is that Kell truly believes what he says. But then there still is a barely healed scar on Rhy's forearm, and the fact that Kell would drop everything he does, all of his plans for Rhy at the slightest pretext. They're more intertwined that he's aware of.
no subject
It's a complicated situation because he doesn't want it to seem like a criticism of either of them, family will always be important. He doesn't have one of them, but he does understand, considering he now has one in Thorne. He would put his life on the line for any of them; he did almost die for them in the Pit, and he'll never regret that.
"I'm concerned the way you see the world and the way you value yourself is all about another person. You aren't the supporting player of your own life, you are the lead in your own story. And I'm saying that as someone who has been there." Istredd still struggles with his mindset of other people having more value than himself. He isn't saying this from a place of looking down at it, he's seeing himself in the situation and saying what he wishes he would have heard.
"Maybe you have your own things, but you don't value them more than what his things are, do you? I care about both of you, this is not an attack on your relationship, what I'm saying is you need to be able to live without him. You need your own life and to value that life for your own future. Because around here, everything can change in an instant."
no subject
Kell looks away, and Istredd can watch in real time how his muscles tense, his jaw sets, slowly, but surely clamming up in reaction to criticism. It is in the best intentions, and it is very true, but Kell doesn't see this. He doesn't want to see or hear any of it.
"I have my studies, the teashop and my writing. Neither of those thing have anything to do with Rhy. We live together, but we don't sit on each other's backs day in and day out. He's not even in my book."
But it doesn't matter, does it? Those are all things Kell would drop for Rhy at moment's notice. No matter how much he protests about it now.
"I have, and I do." He's just being contrarian now. "And I would really appreciate if everyone stop telling me what I should and shouldn't want. I think I can figure it out for myself well enough."
Telling him he can't have things he wants when he was home. Telling him he should want things now that he is here and he can. That what he wants is never right. It was not right then, it is not right now. Even if those are not the same things. Even if his clutching to Rhy is as much about Rhy himself, as it is about Kell being terrified by how little he knows who he even is without Rhy.
no subject
Kell may not be able to do that presently though. He is still very young. He hasn't gone through decades of experience that makes someone more open to outside perspectives. Sometimes a person gets more defensive and incapable of change with time, but for the wise, it's the opposite.
"But if this is how you feel, I can't change that. I just want you to be happy, Kell." But Kell is not happy. Istredd can see that clearly. That could be for any number of reasons but it is not his place to try and control how that happens. "Never forget that I care for you."
no subject
And that throws Kell off enough so he does not immediately follow his usually habit of stubbornly digging his heels. He swallows, blinks, bites his lower lip, eyes trailing away, suddenly pulled into the moment and the awareness of how much different Istredd is from all the figures of authority in his life. Aware enough that it gives him pause.
"I..." he starts, swallows, clears his throat. Still unable to look at Istredd, even when he finally continues. "I know... and I believe you. And I know you know how much Rhy means to me. But I am my own person. I really am. You don't have to worry I'll do something stupid. Really."
At this moment, he even believes it.
no subject
"I was raised in a similar way." He knows he has discussed this with Kell but it's relevant. "With the Brotherhood, you were expected your entire life to be loyal, to only live for it. When they called, you came, no matter what. Even those who thought they were rebellious, they came when fingers were snapped at them. What we could do for them, it was the only thing that mattered." Istredd got away but did he? He got away to do his studies but it was for them, he got to avoid courts and active participation back home, but none of his money was his, everything he earned was branched from their influence.
"It's led me to struggle with finding value in myself separate from that. Someone else is always more important, some cause is always bigger than me." Istredd has created his own bigger causes, and identified the people he considers more important, and he still has an instinct to think about that first. "It's taken a lot of work on other people's part to try and change that mindset." It drives Lucifer insane.
"But I see that in you and it worries me, because you're so young, Kell. I don't want you to waste decades like I did thinking your only value is what other people can take from you. You're as important as Rhy is, Kell."
no subject
"But I am my magic. It's as much me as ... well, whatever the rest is, or what it is ever for."
Herein lies the problem. He never paid attention to that rest. Not that he had freedom to. Most of what he did was in line or against the expectations others had for him. In reaction, no matter positive or negative, to other people thoughts and opinions. What he wanted was in opposition to limitations his adopted parents had put on him. It felt good to bend or even break the rules.
"I don't see how I can separate myself from it, and if it can be useful, if I can be useful, I'd rather it be for someone I really care about. It's not importance, I just can do things for Rhy that he cannot do himself so why wouldn't I?"
But did you ask him, Kell? Did you? Did you ask him if he wants your sacrifice? To share your life with him in a way that felt so unbreakable and final. At least until Singularity. He didn't. He just dropped his future into the fire like it meant nothing. Like he's always willing to drop things for Rhy. Whether Rhy asks him for it or not. Sometimes even when he doesn't want him to...
“You never let me fall.”
No, he won't. He can't.
no subject
"Why can't he do things for himself?" Istredd tilts his head, eyes piercing. "He has access to magic now, like the rest of us. What rules applied in your sphere don't matter here. Rhy doesn't need you to sacrifice everything for him because he's capable of taking care of himself." Istredd's always thought of Rhy as a very competent person, perhaps with a healthier point of view about what is his responsibility and what is not.
"Have you spoken to him about all of this? Believe me when I say a lot of miscommunication in a relationship can be a death knell." Istredd and Yennefer were apart for decades because of their issues, and even when they met again they weren't good at talking to each other. All of the struggles Lucifer and him have gone through are because of miscommunication, they're not great at it, but they're learning.
"I'm not saying you're doing anything bad or wrong, it's more that you can find more happiness if you reach for it."
stubborn boy needs some time ;)
"Of course he can! I just ..."
always did it back home.
Always shielded him from harm, even from the slightest inconvenience. Always gave in to his wildest whims. Even the last one that turned out pretty disastrous on its own. He does not finish his sentence. It's enough that Istredd said it out loud.
What if Rhy really doesn't need him? He'd rather not know, not ask, than learn that's the case.
"Not really," he admits.
It's better now. At least Kell doesn't try to deliberately hide things and doesn't outright lie. It's progress, but they're still not that great in talking to each other about difficult things. What can be more difficult than that? With their history?
"But I am happy."
While true, it's not all that is. Kell just doesn't see it yet.
we can wrap on this one!
"Now let's talk about Nott's pier and what we can do to get it back to itself."