"What part of telling everyone he was unkillable wasn't clear?" he snaps. Sure they all, Lucifer included, hoped that the Singularity being involved might change things, but that's all it was: hope. Futile prayer, as prayer always was. "He's a demon now," whether or not Dean actually died and then became a demon or he just was melodramatic and decided becoming a demon was the equivalent of dying, Lucifer was uncertain, "which is truly fascinating, but cutting out the last sliver of his humanity that may've had a chance of holding him together."
He'd still made that offer to Dean, as though maybe there was someway for him to come out of this, with Abraxas' resources.
Foolish, really. He never would've made it if he was out of the Cage during the original Mark incident, and maybe that's just because he never had to really confront that mirror and so staggeringly accept it.
"Castiel couldn't keep someone safe from a slug," he says, continuing in the same snapped-tone. "And Dean very much wants to carve his wings up--I've already informed him, you're welcome." He steps away from Istredd to put his back to a wall, needing the hard surface against his spine, arms crossed. "Dean found me in the Horizon," he says. "It went swimmingly.
"A demon?" Istredd is definitely going to need a few seconds to catch up. "How would he become a demon here?" Truly a question that is more prevalent in his mind than anything involving his own safety. Demons can possess intelligent species in his sphere, so it's not that he's never heard of it, it's more that it happened here in Abraxas. He also knows Lucifer created demons within his realm so he would be the only person to truly understand how it could, if anyone does.
Istredd's gratitude is felt when he says he warned Castiel, because months ago Lucifer probably wouldn't have bothered. Istredd's worry for his friend won't go away at that though, this is going to be very bad for him. His mind is racing, also thinking about Geralt, who must already know, Castiel would have told him. If Dean is threatening people, it won't stop here.
He thinks about the fear Lucifer felt and follows him to the wall, reaching up to cup his cheek gently. "He knows, doesn't he?" About Istredd and Lucifer. Now that he knows it was Robert, he has a guess as to how that happened, which makes him feel guilty because it was such a small slip up. Istredd didn't know to be careful. But it doesn't matter. He knows.
"He was hiding in the Horizon, he's not going to get here."
"No idea. He was definitely one of mine, but I don't know how. We didn't particularly chat long. I had Dersti eat him after he oh-so kindly threatened you."
Thus this entire conversation.
"He does." Know, that is. "It's not your fault," this is the first softer thing that he's said. "I should've considered the possibility of him around the Horizon." That kind of idle wandering seemed unlike a non-cursed Dean, so really, a cursed one... "I should've made sure you knew what he looked like."
He'd been careless, as he'd rambled off at Istredd's arrival.
"We don't know where he washed ashore. He's more likely to gun for Castiel and his brother, but if he ended up in Thorne's territory there's no saying he won't make a pitstop on his murder tour." Though Thorne's warding had better prove to be useful for something.
"Could his death have triggered the Singularity bringing another version of him here? If he had ever become a demon in your sphere." It does sound like a crazy concept, but if the Singularity wanted to pick and choose who got to go, his death might have triggered something like that. It's a wild theory but if Lucifer has no idea how he became a demon, probably no one will know for sure.
"It's not your fault either," Istredd protests. "It's not like you could have seen this coming. And you're not responsible for what other people choose to do." Including threatening his loved ones, even if yes, he's what caused all this friction in the first place. But Istredd has already explained his opinions about people holding onto grudges from their worlds into this one.
He's not more dangerous than everyone in Thorne. Istredd may have issues with Thorne, but he does have faith that their obsession with keeping their Summoned here will make them xenophobic to the outside after the pit happened. He drops his hand to take Lucifer's hand again and holds it gently.
"Do demons have strong mental shielding? I can loosen my protections against other people and have a passive search open." Istredd intentionally keeps himself from reading other people's minds. If he doesn't do that, it's the kind of the thing where he could pick up on a threat.
"Perhaps, but he seemed too knowledgeable to be 'new.' Rebooted?" He doesn't know, he's unaware that he's ever interacted with anyone that's gone through that--and hilariously, it was Castiel. "I'd more likely chalk it up to not knowing the full array of the Mark. I never died. Cain was already a demon."
Dean was something new.
No bars held and all that.
No amount of Istredd telling him it's not his fault will make him think otherwise. He should have seen it coming. He knew Dean was a threat far better than anyone, even before he became a demon.
The benefit is that they all witnessed the queen ordered a city nuked and really, that makes him at least agreeable that Dean is in fact not more dangerous than everyone in Thorne. Small mercies.
"Depends on the demon. How much does that open you up to other problems?" Or is it all just... noise. "I can sense him from a nearby distance. The Mark leaves him with near-supernatural sense of perpetual burning, and now sulfur from the demon side of things."
"If the Mark is a corrupting influence, and the humanity left Dean between that and his death, this might be what was left." Istredd doesn't know if that means that Dean is in there or if this is an entirely different person. He doesn't know how it goes with demons from Lucifer's sphere, but he would know best. It probably is a mixed reality of yes him and no him at the same time. Nothing is ever easy.
"It just opens me up to headaches." Istredd can still be careful with the native Thorne mages, not to set any of them off, but he will be more sensitive to things out of the ordinary. It's noise, a lot of noise. "If one of us senses him, we can alert the other one immediately, and we can teleport somewhere far away. Remove ourselves from the situation and he'll have no one to hunt."
If he could teleport himself he probably already would have and wouldn't just be messing around in the Horizon, as far as Istredd knows. Both he and Lucifer have the ability to portal away instead of causing conflict. He runs his thumb along Lucifer's palm.
"Promise me we'll leave and not fight." If Lucifer gets instigated into a fight with Dean, Istredd will back him up, they both know that, this is where it all began. Giving up his revenge plan.
It makes Lucifer wonder what would have happened to him if he had managed to die with the Mark. If that corrosive mess would have just overtaken him, too.
Yeah, y'know, theory doesn't matter in this case. He doesn't need to know that What Ifs. Point is, Dean was someone a demon and he went from being mouthy to an aggressor with a problem.
"Rare can I ever promise anything," Lucifer says. "But as far as I know, he doesn't know anything about the kids, he only knows about you." Because he'd probably stand between certain death and the duo of brats he's come to like, but since they should be out of any radar, it'll be fine. "So that? That I can promise. I want nothing to do with that psychotic man." And all things considered he extracted himself from their Horizon meetup rather quickly.
"Well obviously we'd stand between him and the kids." That's a whole other topic and considering all they've gone through to protect them, of course they would continue to do so. But it doesn't sound like he threatened anyone other than Istredd. "But he found out about me by accident. I wasn't thinking."
He knows that Lucifer didn't blame him, in fact he blames himself, but it does seem so stupid now. But he'd never seen Dean and no one told him he was alive and wandering the Horizon. It happened, there is no going back now.
Istredd sighs, still in Lucifer's space, it's hard not to be these days. "All this time I tried not to be a weakness for you, but I've been ready to shout it off the rooftops since we got together." It is a little pathetic but he is happy and in love and he's already admitted to not thinking rationally when it comes to Lucifer.
Dean's presence in Lucifer's domain had been just as much a surprise.
He brings up Istredd's hand from where they're grasped together, shifting the hold. "He didn't do anything to you? Mess with you?" his voice is low. "Touch you?" Lucifer, who has proven to be fine in terms of Yennefer, is extremely possessive when it comes to Anyone Else, as it turns out. That possessiveness is a warm thrum between them, where Lucifer is usually so typically frigid by nature.
He's not caring at the moment about Istredd being a weakness for him.
Istredd felt possessive and jealous himself when Kyle so much as got into Lucifer's personal space, so he understands. And also why he feels a little guilty now, but it was not hiding things in his mind, he really brushed it off.
"He did," he admits. "I told him my partner made the ravens. They were acting strangely when he arrived so I said I'd ask you to unmake them. He heard it." At the time Istredd had just been casually muttering at them. Obviously this was such an off-hand remark, it didn't stick with him until now.
"After that it was small talk but he flirted with me at the end. I can see now what he was doing." Istredd is so unused to being flirted with that he was confused. But many Summoned are like that, it never struck him as strange. "He kissed my hand and implied he'd be interested if we ... weren't working out. I insisted I was happily involved and pulled back my hand, and then that was it."
And now he feels bad about it because it struck him as insignificant so he didn't mention it. Robert in his mind was a new Summoned just trying to figure it all out. Now he can see that he wanted Lucifer to know just to mess with him.
"At least the ravens are actually useful for something."
If Istredd were to listen to them, anyway. They were certainly smarter than Lucifer gave them credit for.
His fury is alive, though not towards Istredd. He said he didn't blame Istredd and for this, too, he can't, because frankly he knows Istredd. He can work out how he got into that situation, especially not knowing he was prey.
He tugs at Istredd's hand somewhere along his breakdown of the event, claiming his mouth in need, not a reminder that any of them require. Lucifer knows, Yennefer knows. Istredd belongs to them. It's just fact, no question, not a single thread of doubt among the hundreds of thoughts woven through Lucifer's mind.
I change my mind, promise rescinded. Well, we'll still leave. He bites at Istredd's lip before pulling away. "But I'm punching him first." Or throwing something at him. Something that won't get him immediately stabbed. But the intent is there.
Istredd frankly wouldn't have noticed any kind of flirting until his hand was touched, then he went 'oh' in his head, bewildered. Lucifer is the only person he has actively tried to flirt with for years, with Yennefer it's how they've spoken to one another all their lives.
His breath catches when Lucifer pulls him in for a kiss since he rarely instigates and he leans hungrily into it. Yours. He reminds gently; not that Lucifer needs it, necessarily, he does know, but Istredd wants to make it clear all the same. With every beat of his heart, he belongs to them.
"Lucifer," he says on a sigh. Istredd cups his head in his hands, caressing his cheeks with his thumbs. "No you're not. We can throw something. Less dangerous." He kisses his forehead, pulling back to look at him.
"Are you okay?" Seeing Dean like that, being accosted in his Horizon and then his partner threatened, he must be in a place.
He hums, delighted, even when Istredd makes to squash his need to pummel Dean just a little.
"Fiiiiine. I'll make something squishy and gross to throw at him, maybe incurs blindness? Blindness and smells like bad fish." The blindness would piss Dean off more than the fish smell.
"I'm fine." He is.
Just disconcerted.
He slumps back into the wall, more loosened and relaxed than he had before. "Dean as a demon is much less entertaining than when he's human," he says, extremely put out by that fact. "I've made some works-of-art demons, met others that churned out of the Hell Machine, that didn't absolutely suck. He's just boring," and had Lucifer very much wanting to just bolt out of his own domain from the off-tune wrongness of his presence, but, "and I couldn't even mine him for information. All-in-all it was a very short conversation."
Istredd chuckles and nods. "Deal, we will be very irritating before we portal away." That's if Dean ever comes here, which he suspects he has no intention of. This is most likely a problem for Castiel and their group, which includes Geralt, so he makes a note to talk to Yennefer about that later. He might not be close to Geralt, but she may like to be informed.
He puts his back to the wall next to Lucifer since he knows this is a comfortable pose for him and he doesn't mind. He reaches out to snag his hand and hold it for now.
"I doubt he's going to feel boring to the people who care about him. I don't know that I fully understand demons from your realm, is he someone entirely new or is the demon just him with less humanity?" He's uncertain if this is a possession situation or not. He suspects it isn't, it seems more likely the latter is true, but it's important to know for the future. Or when talking with Castiel.
"Oh, he's still boring. A dull knife, knowing exactly where to cut."
Honestly he'd likely be easier to ignore, once they just turn off everything he says as useless. When you only spit vitriol Dean and nothing of substance, people stop listening. Word of Advice from Lucifer.
"He's not particularly new. It's not unheard of for a human to become corrupted on Earth and become a demon, it's just extremely unlikely these days. Typically they're made in Hell, and then they possess a human. They get exorcised, they just hop into another vessel; they don't need permission like angels do. Dean just is. His soul, if there's anything left to it, must be more tattered than it was when he was in Hell."
Pause.
"Oh yeah, he was in Hell, once. It was... mmmmm... kind of a long story, actually. Prophecy is like that." Locks and their requirements are like that. "But eventually he broke and took up torturing other souls so that he wouldn't be tortured anymore. Learned under the Grand Torturer himself." Why he knows exactly where to spin his knife and his words. "Excellent student, so I've heard." Wasted potential until now, apparently.
Lucifer divulges this information like he's discussing the weather. It's just normal to him.
"Would the Mark be enough to corrupt him into one? When he died, or came near to death, he may have given up on fighting it, so it took over." Lucifer is an archangel so the corrupting influence wouldn't do the same thing to him. He doesn't know if a normal human just hasn't gotten it before, so this would be all new territory if so.
He logs all this away as information to remember about their world. He knew angels possess vessels obviously, but now the demons do too ... but not every single one is a possession if Dean is an example. Complicated mess. The mages were far more focused on the problems of people than anything like this.
As for the torture, well, who is he to judge on that? Who knows if he would do the same as Dean, in the same position? He probably would.
"Even if it is irrational to hear what the demon is saying and not know the human wouldn't mean it, that is how feelings are sometimes. If you weren't yourself and were saying cruel things to me, I wouldn't be so strong as to be immune to it."
Logic all day long and it still probably would hurt.
"The Mark would need him to be alive. It just needs a living body for it to be a parasite to. It wouldn't be out of the question for it to kickstart Dean as a demon if it's what it took to get his body moving again."
It is all very complicated and it should be remembered that Lucifer is the sole creator that crafted that revolting mess.
An affront to humans, an affront to angels.
... Lucifer was extremely angry when he made demons, clearly.
"Well." What does he say to that? That's Istredd's weak, then? But no, maybe if it was the reverse, Lucifer wouldn't do so hot either. Call him a monster with the mental chords to back it and see what state of the devil came out the other side. The bond would make a scenario much worse in that regard, I suppose.
"That may very well be what happened. Are there any cures for demons? I assume Castiel already knows what it could be on your sphere." The curious thing is if there is any difference considering it happened here, but there are no demon possessions here as far as he can tell, so it's best to go with what makes sense for their sphere.
Istredd's really only asking out of interest and to offer Castiel sympathy later on, he has no intention of them getting involved outside of advice or compassion. This is not really their problem and they would only make it worse at this point, of that he feels sure.
Istredd has a great deal of emotional power over Lucifer which he is aware of. It's a double-edged blade and a two-way street. We know all the things to say to each other that would hurt the most. He squeezes his hand. So good thing neither of us is likely to be possessed by a demon.
Edited 2023-06-15 01:32 (UTC)
trufax: Istredd IS more likely to find out before Lucifer, I asked people LOL
Which turns out there are several things Lucifer doesn't know, but hey. It'll be an interesting surprise whenever someone feels like telling Lucifer, on the bottom of everyone's list, the truth. Istredd is more likely to find out before Lucifer, courtesy of pitfriendshipismagic or whatever t-shirts the trauma crew are making for themselves.
"I had a demon possess my vessel once--who just happened to be Castiel at the time. It was disgusting."
So. Y'know. It is actually possible, just hopefully unlikely to be possible here.
"I'll check in with Castiel. I know you already told him." Which means he would be checking in more as emotional support than actual information, as he has no experience or skill to help with a demon run wild. He probably will end up finding out some details before Lucifer, and he can always tell him after. If nothing else, so he knows whether to expect Demon Dean more than once in his Horizon.
Istredd's eyebrows furrow and his nose scrunches. "Your sphere is a confusing and violent place." As if Lucifer doesn't already know that, but still. His sphere is cruel and cold, and it has monsters and supernatural things within it too, but he doesn't think it's quite this mad. Or he's simply outside of the madness.
"They're not going to give up on him. I wouldn't." Istredd stayed in love with Yennefer while they were separated for sixty-ish years. He is not someone who gives up easily. "Geralt has handled many monsters and creatures, he can probably handle this."
"Dog eat dog world," he says plainly. "Hell functions heavily on humans wanting to sell their souls for absolutely anything they think they need and can't get themselves. Whether they think they can't, actually need support, or are just too pathetic to lift a finger, looking for that easy solution."
Lucifer may've made demons but humanity endlessly keeps the machine flowing, just as predicted.
He thinks Istredd should give up, if it ever came to it. But no amount of telling him would ever make a dent and Lucifer's only hope is Yennefer forcing him, violently if necessary, because otherwise Istredd is just doomed to go down with him.
Istredd tilts his head to look at him, contemplating. "How do you grapple with the reality in your mind that you're romantically involved with someone from a species you loathe? Do you think I'm an exception and that's how it's rationalized?"
There is no judgment in his tone as of now, he is genuinely curious. It's not as if he likes humans much either, but he also thinks all people, species, races have their own issues. He doesn't have a bad opinion of angels for example, since they don't exist in his sphere (as far as he knows).
But the question does give the kind of 'you may want to be careful in your response' energy.
"I think you're the exception for me being romantically involved with anyone," he says, and it isn't an attempt to mislead, or distract Istredd with something he'd want to hear. It's just an important fact to note. "It's easier to think of, mm, different 'spheres' having different branches of humanity, certainly."
He slides down the wall, entirely so that he can crouch and set his elbows to his knees, taking his hand back so that he can press his fingertips together in thought. He is not being careful with his response but he's still thinking about it, so that must count for something?
It is the most basic of his rationale, that initial lattice structure that kept him going for so long. That if enough other universes exist, potentially outside of his Father's hands, then maybe he could acknowledge them as other.
But for all he knows there are people than just the Winchesters and his brothers from his world.
He's had something like this conversation with Kyle, with Castiel. It never gets better, although maybe it has to an extent. He has yet to acknowledge how helpful the Castiel Cave Conversation has been for him.
But even separated from his Father, his world, and those pesky little creations still cause Lucifer problems. Ignoring the corruption, getting them kicked out of Eden probably did them a favor. God likely would've done much worse to them, eventually, when he got bored.
"I never quite knew how hard they had it," he admits, and that sting can be felt mentally. "Oh, sure, the ones in the Garden? They had everything given to them, their Paradise. I-I mean how did they even know they had perfection without a shadow of darkness, huh? It makes sense that after, all their descendants, were just over-saturated with pettiness, ugh sickening. Wanted their hand held for everything, cried at a slap of the wrist... never-ending."
A huff. He taps his pressed-together pointer fingers to his lips a few times. "But. Their whole... soul-thing." He makes a scoff. "Never understood the breadth of it. Angels could never know--we weren't allowed it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not--I'm not saying I think they've changed. That they've gotten better in thousands of years. Truthfully, I think they've gotten worse, as a whole."
He looks up at Istredd. Castiel didn't tell Lucifer 'I told you so' but he may as well have. "But watered-down as I am, even with the scope it... gives me," congrats he didn't say cursed, "it's still incomparable to that force of a soul and you, and them, and all of it, go through it every day and keep going where it would take down the whole of Heaven if they had to experience it."
'The depth and breadth of their emotions, the power of them. It's overwhelming. We think of ourselves as stronger, more resilient. But we aren't carrying a storm around at all times. If that's the force of a soul, I understand why they're so powerful.'
Tch.
He looks away again. "I hate the whole of Earth. I hate the whole of Heaven. I hate the whole of Hell. But with all three--wait, no, scratch Hell off that list--but with the first two, I can acknowledge tiny pinpricks being something else. Unexpected, carrying a storm I could never handle but they do it again and again, or being the ones to weather it." Humanity, and angels. "So that's how I grapple with it."
In summary: he doesn't actually understand humanity (nor does he want to) and some of y'all don't suck and That's Okay because damn your lives are a bit harder than he gave anyone credit for. Except the humans of Eden. They deserved to be kicked out.
"Right, I am special, point well made." He is teasing a little bit, to show that he isn't coming at this from a tense angle. Istredd will always be the exception when it comes to that point. He doesn't think it speaks to the greater question of how Lucifer views the fact he cares for some humans vs. the hatred he also displays for them.
Istredd is very used to Lucifer's favorite physical poses so he lets go of Lucifer's hand when he starts to slide down the wall. He uses his hands a lot when he's being expressive. Istredd listens in his quiet, contemplative way, when he hangs on every word but also lets them get all their thoughts out instead of interrupting.
He slides down the wall himself as Lucifer talks about souls, something he has never given much thought about until becoming involved with an angel, but he doesn't crouch. He sits comfortably with his long legs stretched out and his head tilted toward Lucifer, watchful, open and interested.
"I have my own complicated feelings about humanity and my place in it. I'm technically human but I was born something else too. The average human wouldn't really see me as one of them." And since Istredd puts so much emphasis on being a mage, it's easy for him to see that more as his identity. He doesn't love humanity, in fact he has pretty bad opinions of many of them himself. He's just never really been interested in painting everyone with one brush. Mages are corrupt, humans are corrupt, elves are corrupt. They're all capable of a variety of things.
"I don't think ... I really understand the difference the soul makes. We share a psychic bond, I know you have thoughts and feelings as strong as mine, so what is powerful about mine that you don't have?"
"I could touch yours for proof of its existence but it would be excruciatingly painful for you," he says. But he knows it's there. It's not just some thing of faith. "A single soul can produce an equivalent amount of light to a hundred suns. They hold substantial power. To the supernatural world they're better currency than any form of money. A tiny radiant nuke, unable to be broken by anything. Together? Castiel used something-upwards to fifty-thousand souls to kill one of my brothers, Raphael. An archangel." And then he went to play God but that's quite a tangent.
"Without it humans are... shells. No concept of right or wrong, no ties to hold them back, no emotions, feelings. Just emptiness." And then comes some of Lucifer's own confusion because he doesn't have a soul but, "I don't know what happens to angels when they lose their grace. I don't know why it opens up... more. We're not human just... I don't know, adjacent, but... all I can figure is it opens up a gap where God would've tacked on a soul if he ever thought to give us anything. Some dregs of our grace just getting tacky and unreasonable."
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He'd still made that offer to Dean, as though maybe there was someway for him to come out of this, with Abraxas' resources.
Foolish, really. He never would've made it if he was out of the Cage during the original Mark incident, and maybe that's just because he never had to really confront that mirror and so staggeringly accept it.
"Castiel couldn't keep someone safe from a slug," he says, continuing in the same snapped-tone. "And Dean very much wants to carve his wings up--I've already informed him, you're welcome." He steps away from Istredd to put his back to a wall, needing the hard surface against his spine, arms crossed. "Dean found me in the Horizon," he says. "It went swimmingly.
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Istredd's gratitude is felt when he says he warned Castiel, because months ago Lucifer probably wouldn't have bothered. Istredd's worry for his friend won't go away at that though, this is going to be very bad for him. His mind is racing, also thinking about Geralt, who must already know, Castiel would have told him. If Dean is threatening people, it won't stop here.
He thinks about the fear Lucifer felt and follows him to the wall, reaching up to cup his cheek gently. "He knows, doesn't he?" About Istredd and Lucifer. Now that he knows it was Robert, he has a guess as to how that happened, which makes him feel guilty because it was such a small slip up. Istredd didn't know to be careful. But it doesn't matter. He knows.
"He was hiding in the Horizon, he's not going to get here."
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Thus this entire conversation.
"He does." Know, that is. "It's not your fault," this is the first softer thing that he's said. "I should've considered the possibility of him around the Horizon." That kind of idle wandering seemed unlike a non-cursed Dean, so really, a cursed one... "I should've made sure you knew what he looked like."
He'd been careless, as he'd rambled off at Istredd's arrival.
"We don't know where he washed ashore. He's more likely to gun for Castiel and his brother, but if he ended up in Thorne's territory there's no saying he won't make a pitstop on his murder tour." Though Thorne's warding had better prove to be useful for something.
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"It's not your fault either," Istredd protests. "It's not like you could have seen this coming. And you're not responsible for what other people choose to do." Including threatening his loved ones, even if yes, he's what caused all this friction in the first place. But Istredd has already explained his opinions about people holding onto grudges from their worlds into this one.
He's not more dangerous than everyone in Thorne. Istredd may have issues with Thorne, but he does have faith that their obsession with keeping their Summoned here will make them xenophobic to the outside after the pit happened. He drops his hand to take Lucifer's hand again and holds it gently.
"Do demons have strong mental shielding? I can loosen my protections against other people and have a passive search open." Istredd intentionally keeps himself from reading other people's minds. If he doesn't do that, it's the kind of the thing where he could pick up on a threat.
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Dean was something new.
No bars held and all that.
No amount of Istredd telling him it's not his fault will make him think otherwise. He should have seen it coming. He knew Dean was a threat far better than anyone, even before he became a demon.
The benefit is that they all witnessed the queen ordered a city nuked and really, that makes him at least agreeable that Dean is in fact not more dangerous than everyone in Thorne. Small mercies.
"Depends on the demon. How much does that open you up to other problems?" Or is it all just... noise. "I can sense him from a nearby distance. The Mark leaves him with near-supernatural sense of perpetual burning, and now sulfur from the demon side of things."
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"It just opens me up to headaches." Istredd can still be careful with the native Thorne mages, not to set any of them off, but he will be more sensitive to things out of the ordinary. It's noise, a lot of noise. "If one of us senses him, we can alert the other one immediately, and we can teleport somewhere far away. Remove ourselves from the situation and he'll have no one to hunt."
If he could teleport himself he probably already would have and wouldn't just be messing around in the Horizon, as far as Istredd knows. Both he and Lucifer have the ability to portal away instead of causing conflict. He runs his thumb along Lucifer's palm.
"Promise me we'll leave and not fight." If Lucifer gets instigated into a fight with Dean, Istredd will back him up, they both know that, this is where it all began. Giving up his revenge plan.
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Yeah, y'know, theory doesn't matter in this case. He doesn't need to know that What Ifs. Point is, Dean was someone a demon and he went from being mouthy to an aggressor with a problem.
"Rare can I ever promise anything," Lucifer says. "But as far as I know, he doesn't know anything about the kids, he only knows about you." Because he'd probably stand between certain death and the duo of brats he's come to like, but since they should be out of any radar, it'll be fine. "So that? That I can promise. I want nothing to do with that psychotic man." And all things considered he extracted himself from their Horizon meetup rather quickly.
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He knows that Lucifer didn't blame him, in fact he blames himself, but it does seem so stupid now. But he'd never seen Dean and no one told him he was alive and wandering the Horizon. It happened, there is no going back now.
Istredd sighs, still in Lucifer's space, it's hard not to be these days. "All this time I tried not to be a weakness for you, but I've been ready to shout it off the rooftops since we got together." It is a little pathetic but he is happy and in love and he's already admitted to not thinking rationally when it comes to Lucifer.
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He brings up Istredd's hand from where they're grasped together, shifting the hold. "He didn't do anything to you? Mess with you?" his voice is low. "Touch you?" Lucifer, who has proven to be fine in terms of Yennefer, is extremely possessive when it comes to Anyone Else, as it turns out. That possessiveness is a warm thrum between them, where Lucifer is usually so typically frigid by nature.
He's not caring at the moment about Istredd being a weakness for him.
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"He did," he admits. "I told him my partner made the ravens. They were acting strangely when he arrived so I said I'd ask you to unmake them. He heard it." At the time Istredd had just been casually muttering at them. Obviously this was such an off-hand remark, it didn't stick with him until now.
"After that it was small talk but he flirted with me at the end. I can see now what he was doing." Istredd is so unused to being flirted with that he was confused. But many Summoned are like that, it never struck him as strange. "He kissed my hand and implied he'd be interested if we ... weren't working out. I insisted I was happily involved and pulled back my hand, and then that was it."
And now he feels bad about it because it struck him as insignificant so he didn't mention it. Robert in his mind was a new Summoned just trying to figure it all out. Now he can see that he wanted Lucifer to know just to mess with him.
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If Istredd were to listen to them, anyway. They were certainly smarter than Lucifer gave them credit for.
His fury is alive, though not towards Istredd. He said he didn't blame Istredd and for this, too, he can't, because frankly he knows Istredd. He can work out how he got into that situation, especially not knowing he was prey.
He tugs at Istredd's hand somewhere along his breakdown of the event, claiming his mouth in need, not a reminder that any of them require. Lucifer knows, Yennefer knows. Istredd belongs to them. It's just fact, no question, not a single thread of doubt among the hundreds of thoughts woven through Lucifer's mind.
I change my mind, promise rescinded. Well, we'll still leave. He bites at Istredd's lip before pulling away. "But I'm punching him first." Or throwing something at him. Something that won't get him immediately stabbed. But the intent is there.
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His breath catches when Lucifer pulls him in for a kiss since he rarely instigates and he leans hungrily into it. Yours. He reminds gently; not that Lucifer needs it, necessarily, he does know, but Istredd wants to make it clear all the same. With every beat of his heart, he belongs to them.
"Lucifer," he says on a sigh. Istredd cups his head in his hands, caressing his cheeks with his thumbs. "No you're not. We can throw something. Less dangerous." He kisses his forehead, pulling back to look at him.
"Are you okay?" Seeing Dean like that, being accosted in his Horizon and then his partner threatened, he must be in a place.
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"Fiiiiine. I'll make something squishy and gross to throw at him, maybe incurs blindness? Blindness and smells like bad fish." The blindness would piss Dean off more than the fish smell.
"I'm fine." He is.
Just disconcerted.
He slumps back into the wall, more loosened and relaxed than he had before. "Dean as a demon is much less entertaining than when he's human," he says, extremely put out by that fact. "I've made some works-of-art demons, met others that churned out of the Hell Machine, that didn't absolutely suck. He's just boring," and had Lucifer very much wanting to just bolt out of his own domain from the off-tune wrongness of his presence, but, "and I couldn't even mine him for information. All-in-all it was a very short conversation."
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He puts his back to the wall next to Lucifer since he knows this is a comfortable pose for him and he doesn't mind. He reaches out to snag his hand and hold it for now.
"I doubt he's going to feel boring to the people who care about him. I don't know that I fully understand demons from your realm, is he someone entirely new or is the demon just him with less humanity?" He's uncertain if this is a possession situation or not. He suspects it isn't, it seems more likely the latter is true, but it's important to know for the future. Or when talking with Castiel.
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Honestly he'd likely be easier to ignore, once they just turn off everything he says as useless. When you only spit vitriol Dean and nothing of substance, people stop listening. Word of Advice from Lucifer.
"He's not particularly new. It's not unheard of for a human to become corrupted on Earth and become a demon, it's just extremely unlikely these days. Typically they're made in Hell, and then they possess a human. They get exorcised, they just hop into another vessel; they don't need permission like angels do. Dean just is. His soul, if there's anything left to it, must be more tattered than it was when he was in Hell."
Pause.
"Oh yeah, he was in Hell, once. It was... mmmmm... kind of a long story, actually. Prophecy is like that." Locks and their requirements are like that. "But eventually he broke and took up torturing other souls so that he wouldn't be tortured anymore. Learned under the Grand Torturer himself." Why he knows exactly where to spin his knife and his words. "Excellent student, so I've heard." Wasted potential until now, apparently.
Lucifer divulges this information like he's discussing the weather. It's just normal to him.
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He logs all this away as information to remember about their world. He knew angels possess vessels obviously, but now the demons do too ... but not every single one is a possession if Dean is an example. Complicated mess. The mages were far more focused on the problems of people than anything like this.
As for the torture, well, who is he to judge on that? Who knows if he would do the same as Dean, in the same position? He probably would.
"Even if it is irrational to hear what the demon is saying and not know the human wouldn't mean it, that is how feelings are sometimes. If you weren't yourself and were saying cruel things to me, I wouldn't be so strong as to be immune to it."
Logic all day long and it still probably would hurt.
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It is all very complicated and it should be remembered that Lucifer is the sole creator that crafted that revolting mess.
An affront to humans, an affront to angels.
... Lucifer was extremely angry when he made demons, clearly.
"Well." What does he say to that? That's Istredd's weak, then? But no, maybe if it was the reverse, Lucifer wouldn't do so hot either. Call him a monster with the mental chords to back it and see what state of the devil came out the other side. The bond would make a scenario much worse in that regard, I suppose.
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Istredd's really only asking out of interest and to offer Castiel sympathy later on, he has no intention of them getting involved outside of advice or compassion. This is not really their problem and they would only make it worse at this point, of that he feels sure.
Istredd has a great deal of emotional power over Lucifer which he is aware of. It's a double-edged blade and a two-way street. We know all the things to say to each other that would hurt the most. He squeezes his hand. So good thing neither of us is likely to be possessed by a demon.
trufax: Istredd IS more likely to find out before Lucifer, I asked people LOL
Which turns out there are several things Lucifer doesn't know, but hey. It'll be an interesting surprise whenever someone feels like telling Lucifer, on the bottom of everyone's list, the truth. Istredd is more likely to find out before Lucifer, courtesy of pitfriendshipismagic or whatever t-shirts the trauma crew are making for themselves.
"I had a demon possess my vessel once--who just happened to be Castiel at the time. It was disgusting."
So. Y'know. It is actually possible, just hopefully unlikely to be possible here.
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Istredd's eyebrows furrow and his nose scrunches. "Your sphere is a confusing and violent place." As if Lucifer doesn't already know that, but still. His sphere is cruel and cold, and it has monsters and supernatural things within it too, but he doesn't think it's quite this mad. Or he's simply outside of the madness.
"They're not going to give up on him. I wouldn't." Istredd stayed in love with Yennefer while they were separated for sixty-ish years. He is not someone who gives up easily. "Geralt has handled many monsters and creatures, he can probably handle this."
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Lucifer may've made demons but humanity endlessly keeps the machine flowing, just as predicted.
He thinks Istredd should give up, if it ever came to it. But no amount of telling him would ever make a dent and Lucifer's only hope is Yennefer forcing him, violently if necessary, because otherwise Istredd is just doomed to go down with him.
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There is no judgment in his tone as of now, he is genuinely curious. It's not as if he likes humans much either, but he also thinks all people, species, races have their own issues. He doesn't have a bad opinion of angels for example, since they don't exist in his sphere (as far as he knows).
But the question does give the kind of 'you may want to be careful in your response' energy.
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He slides down the wall, entirely so that he can crouch and set his elbows to his knees, taking his hand back so that he can press his fingertips together in thought. He is not being careful with his response but he's still thinking about it, so that must count for something?
It is the most basic of his rationale, that initial lattice structure that kept him going for so long. That if enough other universes exist, potentially outside of his Father's hands, then maybe he could acknowledge them as other.
But for all he knows there are people than just the Winchesters and his brothers from his world.
He's had something like this conversation with Kyle, with Castiel. It never gets better, although maybe it has to an extent. He has yet to acknowledge how helpful the Castiel Cave Conversation has been for him.
But even separated from his Father, his world, and those pesky little creations still cause Lucifer problems. Ignoring the corruption, getting them kicked out of Eden probably did them a favor. God likely would've done much worse to them, eventually, when he got bored.
"I never quite knew how hard they had it," he admits, and that sting can be felt mentally. "Oh, sure, the ones in the Garden? They had everything given to them, their Paradise. I-I mean how did they even know they had perfection without a shadow of darkness, huh? It makes sense that after, all their descendants, were just over-saturated with pettiness, ugh sickening. Wanted their hand held for everything, cried at a slap of the wrist... never-ending."
A huff. He taps his pressed-together pointer fingers to his lips a few times. "But. Their whole... soul-thing." He makes a scoff. "Never understood the breadth of it. Angels could never know--we weren't allowed it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not--I'm not saying I think they've changed. That they've gotten better in thousands of years. Truthfully, I think they've gotten worse, as a whole."
He looks up at Istredd. Castiel didn't tell Lucifer 'I told you so' but he may as well have. "But watered-down as I am, even with the scope it... gives me," congrats he didn't say cursed, "it's still incomparable to that force of a soul and you, and them, and all of it, go through it every day and keep going where it would take down the whole of Heaven if they had to experience it."
'The depth and breadth of their emotions, the power of them. It's overwhelming. We think of ourselves as stronger, more resilient. But we aren't carrying a storm around at all times. If that's the force of a soul, I understand why they're so powerful.'
Tch.
He looks away again. "I hate the whole of Earth. I hate the whole of Heaven. I hate the whole of Hell. But with all three--wait, no, scratch Hell off that list--but with the first two, I can acknowledge tiny pinpricks being something else. Unexpected, carrying a storm I could never handle but they do it again and again, or being the ones to weather it." Humanity, and angels. "So that's how I grapple with it."
In summary: he doesn't actually understand humanity (nor does he want to) and some of y'all don't suck and That's Okay because damn your lives are a bit harder than he gave anyone credit for. Except the humans of Eden. They deserved to be kicked out.
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Istredd is very used to Lucifer's favorite physical poses so he lets go of Lucifer's hand when he starts to slide down the wall. He uses his hands a lot when he's being expressive. Istredd listens in his quiet, contemplative way, when he hangs on every word but also lets them get all their thoughts out instead of interrupting.
He slides down the wall himself as Lucifer talks about souls, something he has never given much thought about until becoming involved with an angel, but he doesn't crouch. He sits comfortably with his long legs stretched out and his head tilted toward Lucifer, watchful, open and interested.
"I have my own complicated feelings about humanity and my place in it. I'm technically human but I was born something else too. The average human wouldn't really see me as one of them." And since Istredd puts so much emphasis on being a mage, it's easy for him to see that more as his identity. He doesn't love humanity, in fact he has pretty bad opinions of many of them himself. He's just never really been interested in painting everyone with one brush. Mages are corrupt, humans are corrupt, elves are corrupt. They're all capable of a variety of things.
"I don't think ... I really understand the difference the soul makes. We share a psychic bond, I know you have thoughts and feelings as strong as mine, so what is powerful about mine that you don't have?"
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"Without it humans are... shells. No concept of right or wrong, no ties to hold them back, no emotions, feelings. Just emptiness." And then comes some of Lucifer's own confusion because he doesn't have a soul but, "I don't know what happens to angels when they lose their grace. I don't know why it opens up... more. We're not human just... I don't know, adjacent, but... all I can figure is it opens up a gap where God would've tacked on a soul if he ever thought to give us anything. Some dregs of our grace just getting tacky and unreasonable."
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for our Sanity we should wrap this soon LOL
LOL wrap with them making out.
A++